and repeat after me as we learn our next three words in Turkish... Towel, Bath, Border.
May I see your passport, please.
Okay, immigration is a really complex issue. Who gets in and how? What's wrong with it? What about those jobs Americans don't want? Aren't they just trying to make a better life in this land of opportunity? Whose land is it anyway?
Look! This is America. It's for Americans. If you are not a citizen you have no citizen rights. Don't sneak into this land in difference to our laws and expect to be treated like a national. If you are not a Mexican citizen and sneak into Mexico they put you in jail! Stand in line like everybody else. And if we say "no" then too bad. We don't owe every person who doesn't want to live in their own country a place in ours.
Yeah, I know it's a simplistic approach, so I'll try to explain.
First, this is a land of opportunity and we do have a history of opening up for oppressed people. But that doesn't mean we can take everybody right now. Immigration is a process of absorbing new cultures and people becoming Americans. They do not come here and be foreign nationals with the benefits and none of the responsibility towards loyalty of an American. They have to forsake their nationality and native language and learn English and American culture.
Second, and I know the liberals don't want to hear it but, we have to be careful of people who want to harm us and criminals who want to take advantage of our weak. This demands control. We have a right to decide who gets in and it doesn't make us prejudiced, just careful.
Third, the whole thing about "jobs Americans don't want to do" is stupid! I'm convinced food prices won't sky-rocket if farmers have to pay fair wages to whoever works on their farms. In California it appears as if we have to use cheap labor, but out here in the heartland it doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, we regularly have people from other nations come here to work on farms from parts of the world where farm seasons are different so they farm there when we have no need and come here for our harvest. Works out well and people are not exploited and underpaid.
Here's the bottom line. Liberals want to bring in a whole lot of people to subsidize because they'll vote Democrat. Far-left loons believe national identity is passe' and we should be one world so we should drop borders. This is nuts, because I guarantee you other countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Korea, Iran, etc. won't drop their borders. This one-world thing is an "intellectual" concept and is not shared by most of the world that wants to hurt us.
Think about this. We'll use Mexico as an example because they are the closest. The people in Mexico have a corrupt government and police. They have no economy and little hope for change. In history, whenever this is the situation in a country, the people take to the streets and cause change. I'm not advocating violent revolution, but they always do something to better their country. In modern Mexico, the people don't have to stand up to their leaders. They can sneak over here, make low wages in our terms- wealth in theirs, and return home well-off enough to insulate themselves from the countries' poverty. Or, they come here have a child and become legal and live here. I have seen this over and over as a resident in Southern California. Now, If we cut off the ability to come here illegally, they will be motivated to address the problems of their own country. In this way their country will move into the modern world and be better off, the world will be better off, and we'll benefit by the solution of this crisis and the presence of a strong national neighbor.
We just don't have the resources to fix other countries or absorb everybody in the world. So, I'm saying a lot of the problems in the world are not our responsibility. We should help those who want help and fight the slaughter of innocents as in Dafur, but that doesn't mean opening the floodgates to the destruction of our country. If we fall, the free world will fall and there will be worldwide anarchy.
This is my opinion, what's yours.
Patrick!
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4 comments:
You asked for our opinions...
I can't believe you would feel this way, given that you have a family to support and had to go from California to North Dakota just to afford to live. Don't you think that if you were poor and living in Mexico you would do whatever you could to take care of your family, even if it meant coming here illegally? You bet your ass you would.
BTW, most of our ancestors all came over here from other countries, some illegally and some who just happen to come at a time when the US wanted immigrants to build bridges and such so they let anyone in. Bottom line, you and I would not be here if our ancestors had not wanted to get a better life. That's all the immigrants coming here want. Who are you to say that, I got mine, so the rest of you can go starve? That's not very Christian, is it?
And yes, I am throwing that in your face because you always bring it up. So there :) You can feel free to bring up my Humanism any time you think I am not living up to their tenets, which you can see at http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/
FYI we have very few Arab immigrants in this country; the largest groups are Mexican, Chinese, Filipino, Indian, Cuban, other Latino countries, and Vietnamese.
Liberals/Democrats do not want illegals here, to vote or otherwise...most minorities do not vote anyway. We just have compassion for our fellow human beings, though, and are aware that most immigrants are honest, hard-working people who become very good citizens and raise children who become good citiznes (just like all our ancestors were). What do you think Jesus would say about this issue? Would he say, send 'em back? Somehow I doubt that...
Also, the 9/11 terrorists were all here legally. I don't believe there are any illegal immgrigants in this country who have ever committed terrorist acts. Shame on you for implying that.
After all your years working in restaurants, didn't you get to know plenty of nice Mexicans that were hard-working? Those are the people you're talking about. I'm sure some were jerks just like the white people you worked with, but by and large they are just people like you. In fact, given your working class upbringing and the type of jobs you've had, almost exactly like you. I hope you can see the racism at the heart of this issue.
I agree that the government should go after growers and other employers to make them pay decent wages and benefits...but they won't. They are the ones that have politicians in their pockets, including your buddy W. I would be happy to pay more for products and consumables if all employers were forced to do that.
FYI it's proper netiquette to read and reply to people who comment in your blog, as well as to read theirs in return! :) Slacker! Ha ha!!
Love ya!
Okay, do whatever I could to support my family? How about selling drugs or burglary? Maybe that's a little extreme, but where do you draw the line? Yeah, I moved to North Dakota because I couldn't make a decent wage because the Mexicans and Asians were living 6 or more to an apartmaent and kept the wages down and were sending the excess back home to build up their ranchs so they could go back in a few years and live well. Don't dispute this because plenty of them told me this personally over the years. I also saw a lot of this because of my years managing apartment buildings. The few that really wanted to stay here resented this conduct by the many as much as I did. You can't say because illegal things were done in the past that makes it right. We need to keep our national identity. And most of the immigrants came here through a controlled system and just because it wasn't perfect it is no less valid. And no, most of them are not coming here to become Americans because they reject our laws, our language, and want to continue to be their own nationality not American. I am not saying they should starve, but if that poverty is because of their own government, then they have a responsibility to change it, even if it mens getting help from outside. But this country cannot just take every person who doesn't like the way their country is run. And many of them come here and have the audacity to protest us when they don't have the guts to protest their own countries. I always like when a humanist tries to tell a Christian what it means to be Christian. We'll have that discussion later.
I appreciate your stats on the ethnic breakdown of immigrants. Most of those seem to be from Communist, Socialist or otherwise dictatorial governments who keep the wealth for themselves and let their people flee so someone else can take care of them.
Do you call being here on expired student visas, legal? No, the implication was that with a porous border and an abudance of people who don't belong here, it's too easy for those who want to harm us to slip in. This happens. We have caught terrorists trying to come across the southern border.
And in all my years of working in restaurants I found that most of the Mexicans I worked with were lazy and opportunistic. I don't believe all Mexican people are, but a large percentage of the ones who ignore our laws to come here and take advantage of our welfare system and bring down wages are. This is not a racist statement. This is a 30 year observation from someone who wanted to be friends with everyone. This was consistantly proven to me.
Bottom line, there is a lot of wrongs in the world. The answer is change in the countries where it occurs, not trying to support the world's poor here. Of course, every time the US tries to help out somewhere, former Presidents, and world leaders condem us for not minding our own business.
All crimes are not equal. Obviously selling drugs, stealing, and murder - those are all directly hurting people. Sneaking across the border is not directly hurting anyone. However, I would also say I have no problems with selling drugs to adults because drugs should be legalized anyway; and if your family was starving and you stole some food -- again not a big deal. Plenty of people speed (which actually is risking other people's lives) and yet people who are so gung ho about immigration think that coming into the country illegally is so much worse...why?? Makes no sense - until you realize that the reason people are reacting this way is racism.
We were just lucky to be born in this country where we have things like welfare and a real minimum wage. Even if it is one of the richest western countries that takes the least care of its citizens in just about every way (health care, child care, fare wages, vacation time, etc.). It's still better than third world countries like Mexico, and more power to them to try to escape theirs to come here. Just like all of the other immigrants that came before them, like our ancestors the Irish, and the Italians, the French Canadians, etc.
The system is messed up, as both you and I agree, so why should they just stay on their side of the border rather than take advantage of it? Any of us would in the same circumstances. There's nothing inherent about being "Mexican" that makes them come here. It's the situation in both countries that does it. You seem not to have any compassion for others, which is something I have long noticed about right-wingers.
Their country is a democracy but it's corrupt, so there isn't too much they could do to fix things on their side. Heck, what could you or I do to fix things on our side except vote? Nothing. So how can you expect them to do it when they are poor and their government is run by men with guns? Why blame them instead of the people who are responsible - our governement, the growers, restaurant owners - the whole system, as well as the Mexican government.
There is no such thing as a "national identity". Ever hear of a melting pot? All of our culture comes from other countries (except the native American stuff). Every single bit of it.
Very few immigrants reject anything about the US. I don't know where you get this stuff. They worship us around the world and love our pop culture, McDonald's, etc. Not only do most other countries learn English in their schools, but it is the language of the internet. So that is all BS. I taught ESL kids in San Bernardino and they were perfectly hard-working and their parents wanted them to learn English and do well in school. The system in the schools was really messed up and prevented them from doing well because each school district handled it a different way, and these kids moved around a lot because of their families's jobs in the fields. Aw, don't even get me started on this one, how California messed that all up.
It is not immigrants that messed up California; it is Proposition 13 that ruined things there with the schools, housing, everything else.
When they protest, they are exercising the same rights we do as citizens. You can't complain that they don't act like responsible citizens and then complain when they do! Most of the ones you see on TV news protesting or waving flags are legal, anyway. It's no different than when the Irish hold St. Patrick's Day parades or the Italinas have Columbus Day parades. You just have seen it more because you lived in California where there are more Mexicans than recent Irish or Italian immigrants. They may be citizens, but they still feel their homeland's ethnic identity (even if they are second or third generation). There's nothing wrong with that, and it's part of us being American.
I'm not telling you what it means to be a Christian. I'm only telling you what little I know about Jesus and what he preached, and how what you are preaching here in your blog seems to be against that. I am no bible expert, but didn't Jesus say to love your neighbor as yourself? I don't think he added, "as long as they stay in their own yard".
And how about:
“‘The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt.’ (Leviticus 19:33-34)
Also, Jesus said that one of the ways in which nations will be judged is on whether they welcome the stranger. (Matthew 25)
Or are those parts of the bible that just don't apply to the real world? You tell me because I would like to know.
Only a couple of those countries I mentioned were Communist. The rest are just third world (poor or dictatorships). Non-Western, as it were.
Terrorists don't sneak in like Mexicans. They have money. They have illegals documents and such. They don't want to draw attention to themselves. They did not have expired student visas, they had fake ones. In other words, they didn't come in here as students completely legally and then stay longer than they promised. They came in here with false documents. It's all there in the 9/11 commission report. They didn't sneak across the Rio Grande.
I notice you didn't comment on the fact that your president (assuming you voted) does not agree with you on immigration...
Thing is, we (the U.S.) don't have a 'head in the sand' mentality like you suggest here. We go and meddle in other countries and their governments all the time. We affect other economies, both on purpose and by accident. It's bad enough we don't take care of our own citizens properly, but when we support third world dictatorships, we create those problems...and then wonder why their citizens comes here for a better life. We need to clean up the messes we make, not just ignore them and say, "Oh, well"...
I enjoyed our discussion and I'm glad you did not take offense, since you did ask for opinions :)
We'll have the "victemless crime" discussion later. All I'm saying is this country cannot absorb an uncontrolled flood of people from other countries. The system is broken and our president hasn't seen to it that anything has been done about it. Still, we don't say "Hey, it's broken so forget it" It needs to be fixed. Iraqi Terrorists have come through the border as late as in June this year some were apprehended. The border is not the only access point too. Just don't tell me the poor people of Mexico and other countries can't do anything about their countries and should come here and drain our welfare system. We threw out the British as did most of the "Empire" including Austrailia. Mexico and many Central and South American countries threw out the Spanish. It can be done. I don't want to support violent revolution, but still no one has to put up with oppression. Finish the fence, tighten security and inform I.C.E. when you arrest a criminal illegal alien. We need to protect America while extending help throughout the world.
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